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A few vehicle related questions again...

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CLR
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A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 10.03.2012, 16:22

Here are a few issues I'm trying to deal with and can't get solved. Questions are in yellow, followed by explanation.

- How to make cars truely have frontwheel drive (FWD) or rearwheel drive (RWD)?
Yes, there's an option in the code for each wheel that says driving=''0'' or driving=''1'', but that doesn't help at all, it's just a bit of filling for the wheellines. I have three cars in the teststage now which require only rear wheels to be powered, but áll wheels remain powered while the front ones (axle="0", first axle of vehicle) do have driving=''0'' in the XML. The way I can confirm which wheels are powered, is by giving the car a large acceleration value. By this, the wheels spin because they need time to gain full traction. Unpowered wheels should have no blur, but at all time áll wheels have blur, so áll wheels are powered). In addition, setting the Torquescale for non-powered wheels to 0 also does not help.
So, is this option actually working in CE3, and if so, how do I properly get this to work?

- How to make vehicles with more than one steering axle, with different maximum steeringangles and even mirrored steering?
Maybe difficult to explain for people who have less knowledge about cars, but maybe you know big airport firetrucks, construction crane trucks or special transport heavy tractor units? They often are equipped with at least two steering axles. For as little as possible wear on the wheels, the ''secundary'' steered axles steer at a less sharp angle than the front wheels. Especially construction vehicles even have the last axle steered, obviously in the opposite direction (if all wheels steer to the right, you would crawl like a crab).
So, is there a way to define multiple steered axles? Is it possible to define different maximum steering angles?

- How to reduce the amount of wheelblur?
When I apply full throttle on a vehicle which has a lot of power and should do the classic 0-100 km/h sprint very fast, the wheels spin, but the blur on the wheels is ridiculous. The diameter of the wheel almost seems to increase, and the blur is not rotational, but goes in all directions.
So, how can this overdone wheelblur be reduced or even disabled?

- How to make parts like seperate wheelcovers and brake-calipers steer with the wheels but NOT rotate (of driving)?
Almost all cars of today have brakediscs with calipers. Calipers do steer along with the wheel but do nót rotate with the wheel because they're attached to a base block the wheel is also attached to. Does CE3 support such parts? How can such a part be made or coded to steer but not roll?
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 24.03.2012, 14:30

Nobody who knows an answer on either of the questions?
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 07.04.2012, 16:34

Topic can be closed, we are suffering such extreme delays waiting for answers which will not come, that we've had to decide we'll have to live with these shortcomings.

If racing games are not meant to be made at all with this engine, it would have been nice if there was some sort of clear stated message on this.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby Sava » 07.04.2012, 17:05

You can do all this stuff you just need to know c++ or lua to code this stuff "onto" the existing vehicle parameters.
I don't know how to do this but a perfect example of what could be done with new code is cwrights airplane extension.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 07.04.2012, 21:21

Not everything, how are we supposed to fix the fact CryEngine's setting for having powered but also NON-powered axles simply does not work? Putting ''driving'' to 0 doesn't help, putting Torquescale to 0 doesn't help either. I doubt that's something a bit of coding can fix, while it's a very fundemental thing for a racing game, although I've already heard racing games actually simply shouldn't be made at all with CE3.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby Sava » 07.04.2012, 21:50

Again like I said all you're doing right now is fiddling with the xml parameters. The code for the parameters themselves are coded in probably c++. With the right knowledge you can make the vehicle parameters behave however you want. Right now the parameter code was probably just taken form crysis 1 or 2 both of which aren't racing games.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby Mr.Hankey » 08.04.2012, 05:35

A lot of the deeper simulation a code is not exposed to the SDK so sadly he actually has a valid point here when it comes to powered axles...
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby punisher454 » 08.04.2012, 09:01

during my recent tank type vehicle i found it painfully obvious that the xml is only a small part of whats going on. some things like wheel bone names are hard coded.

we need a more powerfull vehicle editor!
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 08.04.2012, 13:41

punisher454 wrote:during my recent tank type vehicle i found it painfully obvious that the xml is only a small part of whats going on. some things like wheel bone names are hard coded.

we need a more powerfull vehicle editor!


Been asking for that as well but I don't see it happening as apparently CE3 simply shouldn't be used for racing games.

Either we indeed could get a more powerfull and better documented vehicle editor, or we need a message right now to stop working with CE3 and move to a different engine. We simply don't have the time to wait 2 years for a few extra options in the vehicle editor, so we then gladly accept an immediate message racing games can't be made properly this way.

Only to find out whom to send these questions, I've already sent CryDev emails earlier with help requests and never even got an automatic response, let alone suggestions to help us.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby punisher454 » 09.04.2012, 06:44

better documentation, and a few more examples (preferably ones that work) would sure go a long way.
To simply give control of more parameters to the XML rather than in the actual game code would be nice.
It would be real nice to actually define actual spring rates with real world type numbers and other things like...
1. engine torque curve with at least 6-8 points
2. engine inertia value
3. camber,caster, toe in/out, + - camber gain, ackerman angle...
4. pick driving wheels and differential lockup%
5. torque converter characteristics
I better stop here.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby Sava » 09.04.2012, 19:29

Apart from a better documentation I really don't think there's a reason to complain. Unity has no dedicated vehicle editor and in the UDK vehicle setup takes a long time due to rigging and scripting.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby punisher454 » 09.04.2012, 22:47

I'm thinking something more like having an "Advanced" tab in the vehicle editor that lets you adjust the things we currently cant easily access. It would still allow you to create simple vehicles like you can now.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 14.04.2012, 14:44

Yes, something like with the Extended Time Editor list.

It now simply is not enough to even get a base race game done. Also, a bit more possibilities and especially explaining of the whole Movement part of the vehicles (I'm especially aiming at the performance statistics) simply has to be redone. How am I supposed to know what 0-62 time a car has and what the top speed is?

Would have been nice to get a word on if CryDev would ever work on this... I've seen various requests earlier and never a response they'd work on it.
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby hendrik » 14.04.2012, 14:53

For something like this you'll have to create your own vehicle class using C++ and program the behaviour model and physic handling yourself. This is no simple stuff there are whole companies focused on testing and simulating vehicles and engines. A game engine can not provide all vehicle configuration possibilities.

No engine will support what you want you'll have to extend everywhere.

Mechwarrior Legends created a own vehicle class for the walkers (that would be CrySam i think), sourcecode was never released. That was the only custom C++ vehicle class i know. Then there where some Lua flying simulators (again programmed from scratch).
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Re: A few vehicle related questions again...

Postby CLR » 14.04.2012, 19:22

hendrikp wrote:For something like this you'll have to create your own vehicle class using C++ and program the behaviour model and physic handling yourself. This is no simple stuff there are whole companies focused on testing and simulating vehicles and engines. A game engine can not provide all vehicle configuration possibilities.

No engine will support what you want you'll have to extend everywhere.

Mechwarrior Legends created a own vehicle class for the walkers (that would be CrySam i think), sourcecode was never released. That was the only custom C++ vehicle class i know. Then there where some Lua flying simulators (again programmed from scratch).


There is simple stuff, we simply want to try what the engine does allow, we can't help it that CryDev or CryTek or whoever couldn't make the driven axles option correctly working. CE3's vehicle mechanics would have been good enough for internal testversions if some things were a bit better worked out and properly documented, we can't straight away blow 16.000$ to a proper special-purpose physics engine.

All we ask for is a bit more documentation and a bit more functions that work. If the base product got certain stuff working, we won't have to delay the project by weeks or months because we have to dig in CE3 why stuff doesn't work as it should.

And if you read back, physics and motion of vehicles is only part of the problems we face.


 
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