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CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

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McMaster
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CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby McMaster » 29.08.2011, 20:46

Hi, my name is Mike and i need some support, probably only the devs are gonna be able to give me the aswer to this, but if anyone knows something, please post.

Little background info: I'm starting a game development and already have assembled a team, we all love games, and currently we are doing Game Design university. We already have some background in modelling in Maya and such, and we were looking for a good engine to start the project.
As we are just starting, we have no cash to go and buy an engine, so we were gonna use a free one, and Unreal Engine 3 looked like a promising deal. But after Crytek annouced they were gonna release their engine free, this opened new doors for us.
I myself, and some of my team already know crytek since FarCry, and i've been a good fan since i download CE2 Sandbox and started to tweaken a little, even tought i had only 15 years old. Now that Crytek release CE3 and told about the free and commercial licenses, it looked like the perfect deal, why?
CE3 looks way more promising than UE3, the physics and AI system looks way better, the graphics are higher and can get better with time, as UE3 is almost at its peak.

The Deal:
As far as we got, CE3 Sandbox looks like a engine made for a FPS game, as we already start with firearms and the game is in first person. We found, thanks to a dev post, a way to make the game in third person, but its still a shooter.
Can we, or can we not, make another style of gameplay based on the CryEngine 3 given to us freely? Can we make a RPG game, and even higher, a MMORPG game?
We love RPG games, and we think a MMORPG with CE3 would be a sucess in the right hands, and we already are familiar with ArcheAge (Asian MMO with uses CE3, currently in BETA).
So, we already have lots of ideas of how to get it to look like a RPG, but we wanna know, is it possible? Or will we get limited by the engine and won't be able to do it? Also, are we using the same engine as ArcheAge, or just another version planned only for free access?

Thats my questions, lots of it actually, and loads of text, i would be happy if someone could actually read this and post. Thanks for it, Mike.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby Sieabah » 31.08.2011, 00:43

I would think anything is possible to create with CE3 if you were to license the engine and get access to the source code.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby Ruan » 31.08.2011, 00:52

I see no reason as to why you couldn't create an RPG using the free SDK.

MMOs, however, are a different beast entirely and I'm not sure whether that level of networking is available solely via use of a game DLL.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby Zeph » 31.08.2011, 15:07

Utlimately, as Ruan suggests, it's all up to how awesome of a programmer you have.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby McMaster » 31.08.2011, 16:50

Thanks for the awesome replys.
Following to that, we are thinking in start the game as a RPG first, we'll produce the entire world of the game in levels, then try to switch the game engine to a RPG.
After that, we can contact some good companies in search of a programmer to see how we can turn it into a MMO.
We know its gonna take some years, expecially since we are starting independently, but we're gonna do hard work in this, as we love games, and we hope to produce an awesome game with CE3.
Thanks for it, Mike.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby P_West » 01.09.2011, 04:10

I have had similar issues as I have delved deeper into CryEngine 3. I am a fan of both RPG's and FPS's. CryEngine is definitely coded and optimized for FPS development. That is not to say that it is not possible to create an RPG, it just means that there is a a lot more work needed.

Since you can download the "Free" SDK for non-commercial development, you do not gain access to the engine's source code. The source code would be mandatory for creating an RPG. Other game engines, Unity for example, are design with a much more open-purpose development design which requires virtually no need for modifying the engine source. Instead, you are free to write your own scripts which use the engine's innate access methods. This way you have no limitations to what you incorporate into your game.

So far, my impressions lead me to believe that if you are developing either a FPS or 3rd-person action/shooter, then CryEngine is a MUST. No Other engine compares at present. However, if you are going to create something like a true RPG, Space Sim, Racer, Sports game, etc., then you should first consider alternate choices.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby Zengotten » 01.09.2011, 10:24

Aion runs on Cryengine 2, and it's an MMORPG. And there are already other MMOs being developed using Cryengine 3. So yeah you can pretty much make whatever kind of game you want, I'm not sure how limited the game code access is in the SDK though you might need to have the source code to the engine to be truly free to make what you want., and that requires a license.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby modsuki » 01.09.2011, 10:41

Hey, Aion is CE1 game. NCsoft using their custom version of CE1. It's not CE2.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby the_grim » 01.09.2011, 11:16

P_West wrote:Since you can download the "Free" SDK for non-commercial development, you do not gain access to the engine's source code. The source code would be mandatory for creating an RPG.

The game source code is included however, and you can do a lot with that - including a fully-fledged RPG system. Massive multiplayer network code and level streaming and such, which would be features of an MMO game, would probably require engine source though. That is not handed out to free licensees (it would be rather silly from Crytek to hand their engine source out to anonymous downloaders), but it is provided for commercial engine licensees.
Other game engines, Unity for example, are design with a much more open-purpose development design which requires virtually no need for modifying the engine source. Instead, you are free to write your own scripts which use the engine's innate access methods. This way you have no limitations to what you incorporate into your game.

You are free to use Cryengine's scripting methods: LUA scripting, XML data and the in-editor visual flow graph scripting. Using these methods it's definitely possible to do next to anything you can conceive. A couple examples (using no source code modifications):






So far, my impressions lead me to believe that if you are developing either a FPS or 3rd-person action/shooter, then CryEngine is a MUST. No Other engine compares at present. However, if you are going to create something like a true RPG, Space Sim, Racer, Sports game, etc., then you should first consider alternate choices.

The Cryengine SDK out of the box is no doubt best suited for traditional FPS gameplay, but there's nothing stopping you from going a lot further. With C++ code, you can do almost anything that doesn't require alterations to the engine functions. Your limitations are basically that you have a 3D camera and a three-axis Euclidean world (which means flat terrain, no spherical gravity etc) with somewhat limited dimensions (approximately 16 kilometers across per map). Go on and build your gameplay on top of that. ;)

Free competitors such as Unity and Unreal Engine 3 don't even offer any C++ source code access, only scripting, so I think this is by far the best deal for any genre of gameplay, not just FPS. Don't judge an engine's capabilities by the template game they provide; just because you have a first-person camera and a weapon by default, of course doesn't mean that you're limited to something similar. ;)
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby modsuki » 01.09.2011, 11:38

open outcast :P
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby P_West » 04.09.2011, 05:31

I admit that anything is possible. However, the tools and access we are given with the CryEngine 3 SDK makes the process of developing an RPG very limiting. For instance, creating a seamless open world is not very feasible for mmo scale RPGS http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=321&p=838969.

RPGs require different UI tools for hotkeys, inventory, etc. This would require UI/HUD elements to be implemented. Currently CE3 SDK does not include Scaleform. And since Crysis 2 uses Scaleform for all of its UI, this is a huge block of RPG developers http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&p=841795.

Until more documentation about CE3 is released, creating an RPG is an uphill battle that is not worth the effort at this point.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby xPreatorianx1 » 04.09.2011, 09:31

P_West wrote:I admit that anything is possible. However, the tools and access we are given with the CryEngine 3 SDK makes the process of developing an RPG very limiting. For instance, creating a seamless open world is not very feasible for mmo scale RPGS http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=321&p=838969.

RPGs require different UI tools for hotkeys, inventory, etc. This would require UI/HUD elements to be implemented. Currently CE3 SDK does not include Scaleform. And since Crysis 2 uses Scaleform for all of its UI, this is a huge block of RPG developers http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&p=841795.

Until more documentation about CE3 is released, creating an RPG is an uphill battle that is not worth the effort at this point.


Keep in mind the stuff given is just samples. Which is why the forest.cry is a FPS. While yes Cryengine3 and Crytek are FPS heavy - that doesn't mean anything. You can program in C++ using Cryengine3 Free full SDK, Lua, and Flowgraph. So you do have the tools to create any kind of game you choose. Is it gonna be a bit more difficult? Yes it is. But it's not impossible, nor improbable. It's entirely feasible and would just require a bit of extra work. But I mean it gives you a greater challenge to overcome so your first game will be that much more rewarding because of the added challenge. So at least to me that's a bonus.

The CDk(Cryengine 3 development kit) is an engine after all, therefore you can create whatever you want. I mean if you can create something like that shoot em up with just Flowgraph, you can easily accomplish the EXACT same thing with code. If just the flowgraph capabilities allow such flexibility, imagine what pure code could do? - It's simply limitless. Yes more work, but limitless none the less.

Also keep in mind this is the 1.0 release. There's still a lot of stuff that will be added. So even currently you can easily start developing an RPG. By the time you get to UI design, I'm sure there will be a better alternative to flash.

Also again - the samples mean nothing. They are just that samples. Just because the only sample included for an actual level or whatever is an FPS based game, doesn't mean RPG's are not possible. It simply means that Crytek opted for that as it was the easiest and quickest sample to provide. Samples are not meant to be extensive. They are merely a small piece of the puzzle that can be used to build upon.

Likewise the community can easily pick up where Crytek left off for samples. As this is just the 1.0 release we could see sample projects for all kinds of different genres as the community and the engine matures. So again the options are limitless.

As for the comment about UDK reaching it's peak in Graphics - you haven't see Hawken have you? That is being developed entirely using UDK. The exact same version that you can download right now. It has absolutely no differences. So no, UDK has not reached it's peak in graphics. Far from it. All you need is a group of talented individuals to create something extraordinary. Same thing with the Cryengine 3 full free SDK.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby Zeph » 04.09.2011, 18:10

xPreatorianx1 wrote:As for the comment about UDK reaching it's peak in Graphics - you haven't see Hawken have you? That is being developed entirely using UDK. The exact same version that you can download right now. It has absolutely no differences. So no, UDK has not reached it's peak in graphics. Far from it. All you need is a group of talented individuals to create something extraordinary. Same thing with the Cryengine 3 full free SDK.


Exactly what part of Hawken do you see visually going above and beyond any other Unreal 3 game? It has a short view distance, generic shaders, and flat/blocky geometry all over the place.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby xPreatorianx1 » 05.09.2011, 06:10

Zeph wrote:
xPreatorianx1 wrote:As for the comment about UDK reaching it's peak in Graphics - you haven't see Hawken have you? That is being developed entirely using UDK. The exact same version that you can download right now. It has absolutely no differences. So no, UDK has not reached it's peak in graphics. Far from it. All you need is a group of talented individuals to create something extraordinary. Same thing with the Cryengine 3 full free SDK.


Exactly what part of Hawken do you see visually going above and beyond any other Unreal 3 game? It has a short view distance, generic shaders, and flat/blocky geometry all over the place.


I guess you've seen different trailers then I have. The game looks phenomenal. But even still you do realize the game is barely in alpha right? So it's going to improve a hell of a lot more. So even at this early stage the game looks simply breathtaking. Again are we talking about that new mech game coming out? As the video's I've seen look simply breathtaking. Also about blocky geometry - it's all supposed to be metal dude. But most of the surroundings have spikes, protrusions, etc. So again it really seems like we are talking about two completely different games.

Here's two videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVa7B1bLv8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEAEARD-Fo
Ya I guess you could say it suffers from Unreal3 "100s of shades of one or two colors." But even still, amazing looking game if you compare it overall and that's just pre-alpha quality. My point still remains, UDK has nowhere near reached it's limit if something like that can be achieved and it's not even a beta yet, let alone finished. Samaritan was also designed using UDK as well I believe. Or the Samaritan demo engine build was mirrored into the UDK branch. So again - nowhere near reached it's peak.

Final thought : Why does a mech game in a crowded, very urban, very decrepit landscape need a huge draw distance? Your fighting within a 100 meters. Your draw distance is the enemy mech your fighting, and the immediate buildings around you. Everything else is merely metal buildings on all sides. So it's not like you need Crysis level draw distance. If it was situated in a vast, lush, valley, or field, I could see your point. But it's not. Besides the desert video so far everything seems to take place in a highly closed in city environment. Or do you really wanna render yet another 10 buildings around you to decrease performance while your in a frantic mech fight? I know I don't. Last thing I'm worried about in that type of game(extremely fast paced fighting style) is staring off into the distance at yet another building. Crysis games - ya give me huge draw distances, but a mech game centered in a chaotic and thrashed urban landscape? No it's not needed nor required. I'll be long dead before I get to admire anything off in the distance.

EDIT: Basically what I mean is the way the game seems to unfold, the only objects you see at any given time are a couple of buildings in front of you, and the mech. The buildings are so big that there's no way you can honestly even care about draw distance. Plus as I said the speed of the combat is way too fast to sit there and admire how far off into the distance you can look. But again as it's pre-alpha that could very easily change.
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Re: CryEngine 3 Sandbox - FPS Only?

Postby P_West » 05.09.2011, 07:16

Hawken does look phenomenal! UDK is very powerful graphically and depends a lot on Kismet. For instance, I have seen people implement parallax occlusion mapping in different ways. The upside to CryEngine is that POM is easier to implement and there is one single way to do it.

The more I learn CryEngine the more I wish it supported Scaleform and had better documentation for C++.


 
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